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 Lulu has bald spots on her head

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TJones09
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PostSubject: Lulu has bald spots on her head   Lulu has bald spots on her head EmptyMon Sep 03, 2012 10:58 pm


Lulu, has bald spots on the top of her head, they're almost identical. I wanted to take a photo, but didn't have my phone or camera handy.

Here is what she did look like before



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This was about 2 weeks ago. I thought it would fill in, but instead I noticed tonight that the spots are a lot larger. I don't know if she is pulling it out, over grooming, or if Skadoosh is doing it to her.

Does anyone have any experience with this sort of thing happening and what the cause would be? Also, how do you handle gliders that are pulling their fur out? Am I stressing her out too much?


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu has bald spots on her head   Lulu has bald spots on her head EmptyTue Sep 04, 2012 4:38 pm

If you know for sure that your little one is NOT being overly stressed and is on a good diet the bald spot can be from their 'rubbing' on each other.

I have two males who LOVE to rub on each others chests/belly. It's like their way of being affectionate. They have done this ever since I've had them (7 years). The two little bald spots are located in the same exact place as yours.


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu has bald spots on her head   Lulu has bald spots on her head EmptyTue Sep 04, 2012 4:50 pm

OH, thanks, I didn't think of that, they do love each other and snuggle in a pouch. They're on the HPW Original diet, with variety of f/v served daily. I feel that 's a good diet. They eat well and expel normally also. She may be rubbing on Skadoosh. I wish I could see what goes on in their pouch, lol. On the other hand, Lulu is an anxious little suggie, very skittish, so can't be sure which it is.


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu has bald spots on her head   Lulu has bald spots on her head EmptyTue Sep 04, 2012 5:03 pm

I bet that's what's going on. If you ever get a chance to watch them, it really is cute as all get out. Choco will rub on Sam, when he's finished rubbing away, Choco will lay on his back and let Sam rub away on him. They are tightly bonded to each other and are always grooming/rubbing.




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PostSubject: Re: Lulu has bald spots on her head   Lulu has bald spots on her head EmptyTue Sep 04, 2012 8:20 pm

And the bald spots look like Lulu's on her head? I wonder now, if it isn't that, could be a real good possibility. Thanks, I kind of hope so, so I won't worry that she's so stressed. Her bald spots are bigger than in photo.

Does your gliders do this in pouch during the day, or at night when out & about in the cage?


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu has bald spots on her head   Lulu has bald spots on her head EmptyWed Sep 05, 2012 1:29 pm

Gosh, I swear. I was gonna be first on the scene to answer and then my phone just lost my whole response in cyberspace, so now I am on a proper computer. lol

Lsardou has an interesting led I haven't heard of before, rubbing. Not to say it is not a possibility but I also wanted to respond with my idea. The pattern of overgrooming that Lulu has is identical to my Luna's, sooo here goes my long post. Lulu has bald spots on her head 1922063074

The balding on Lulu's head is CLASSIC self-overgrooming. It is the easiest spot for them to tackle on their own, if you hear her doing the grooming-sneeze watch her closely. She will sneeze in her hands and rub it all over her face, normal right, but she will also inconspicuously run her hands through her eyebrow region spending more than normal time on her head while grooming. This type of grooming becomes habitual in response to stress. Once a glider has learned to handle stress by repeating a habit, much like OCD people, they will likely do it always.

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You can see a variation in her fur above her left eye, in this photo she is having a good week.
Obviously it is not good to be stressed out, to an extent that a behavior is enacted just to feel better. I would advise you to go to the vet and get a normal checkup, get fecals done to check for parasites to make sure the reason she is stressed has nothing to do with health issues. In Luna's case she is healthy but she gets overzealous when grooming and there are things you can do to help them feel better, the first would obviously be getting friends but since Lulu and Luna both have friends you can try other things like nightly out of cage time, a larger cage, changing the cage set up more often, getting more toys, creating moments of enrichment like nesting caves/ foraging toys/ playing glide to me more often/ making food more fun and less of a choir to eat/ etc. I have found the best thing to help overgrooming cease or simmer down is just to have fun with your gliders.

I hope this helps. That photo of Luna was taken after weeks of regularly free-range play and fun meals. She got to try all these new foods and she was so entertained and busy having fun she forgot all about needing to groom so much. One night she tried edamame for the first time, another night she had a raw quail egg, fresh flowers to terrorize later on in the week, new batches of mealworms...she had a blast and her fur started to grow back. Every now and then she grooms the same area too much, but for the most part it can be managed.


VE

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PostSubject: Re: Lulu has bald spots on her head   Lulu has bald spots on her head EmptyWed Sep 05, 2012 4:44 pm

VE, thanks for your input. I have taken everything into consideration and took your advise on calling her vet. I am waiting for a return call from her either today or Fri (she's off on Thu) to consult with her on whether she wants to see her & do fecal or just whatever she may advise over phone.

As far as play things, I may have over-stimulated her actually. I don't think she really likes the change ups too drastic.

VE, they had pretty much nothing when I go them. They were about 1 yr old, 3 months age diff. They had: wheel, small pouch, 2 jingle balls, a sock & food & water bowls.

I picked up some stuff the day I got them, then ordered a little woodland set, here are the photo comparisons.

The wheel & small pink pouch, & sock came from original owners, you can't see the balls, but everything else is what I got asap for them.
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After receiving input on cage I changed things up, removed all unsafe items and added more & more & more "safer stuff", now it looks like this
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Lots of toys (they don't know how to play with) all kinds including forage, and hide-aways. The biggest changes I made have been within days of each other and I think over-stimulated them, or at least Lulu.

Thanks again, I have many things to consider possible causes, I'm just gonna see what her vet weighs in on.


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu has bald spots on her head   Lulu has bald spots on her head EmptyWed Sep 05, 2012 7:02 pm

OK, vet called & weighed in. She says she loves that I hide treats in forage toys & hides, but when I told her what & how much, she says to increase what I hide in them. More variety and more of them. She says to wait and see if there is any improvement, if none in a couple of weeks or it worsens, then bring her in. She just doesn't feel it's necessary for a visit at this point, unless it worsens or no improvement as long as she is eating, expelling, and playing normally. She says keep an eye out for any changes, both worse & improved.


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu has bald spots on her head   Lulu has bald spots on her head EmptyWed Sep 05, 2012 9:24 pm

Thanks to everyone for your replies and efforts to resolve this issue.

After posting my concerns in more than 1 forum and receiving many replies suggesting possible causes and recommendations for some. I decided today, upon suggestion by a few individuals, to call Lulu's vet and confer with her. I awaited her return call and proceeded to explain the circumstances the best I could over the phone. I explained her overall appearance of health, activity level, appetite, and expelling of waste matter are all normal. I went over Lulu's personality & her diet. And explained the different possible causes that was mentioned on the forums. She feels this is stress related, she made some recommendations to try first to see if there is an improvement over the next couple of weeks & to watch closely for changes. If there is no improvement, or situation worsens, then she wants to see her.


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu has bald spots on her head   Lulu has bald spots on her head EmptyWed Sep 05, 2012 10:12 pm

Sounds reasonably, good thing you called beforehand to avoid stressing Lulu out further.

Hey, being exposed to a whole new environment and lifestyle may have started it. How long have you had your gliders?


VE

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PostSubject: Re: Lulu has bald spots on her head   Lulu has bald spots on her head EmptyWed Sep 05, 2012 10:30 pm

VE, I got them on 28th of February. They were settling in pretty well and coming around better but in mid June till near end of July, we had a lot of things going on around here. Their routine was changed some of that time, and then we were just getting back to normal around end of July into Aug. Then I introduced 2 big new toys, along with several new little toys (i made) and started trying to spend pouch time with them. It was all within a short time period and maybe I over stimulated them or overwhelmed them. Lulu is neurotic, she's always been the introvert and is not as "friendly" as Skadoosh is. Skadoosh has always been more out going and nicer, while Lulu is more scared. They were both scared & skittish when we got them, but Lulu was a total nightmare. She has come along pretty well though, but still a bit neurotic. And at times both will behave more skittish from time to time, then be back to progressing with bonding. Here is Lulu, grooming me, so you can see she was coming around a bit, and this wasn't too long ago, around when I first noticed her bald spots, you can see them in photo.
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PostSubject: Re: Lulu has bald spots on her head   Lulu has bald spots on her head EmptyWed Sep 05, 2012 10:37 pm

You know, I feel kind of bad that I hadn't noticed sooner, but I just looked back a an even older photo taken not too long after we got them, maybe a few weeks. And it's kind of blurry, and Lulu was hard to get close to, but I just cropped in this photo and maybe there is a faint spot where the balding was in early stages. Like I said it's blurry, but if looking closely, you can see it.
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Right above her eye.


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu has bald spots on her head   Lulu has bald spots on her head EmptyMon Sep 10, 2012 7:12 pm

I have never dealt with over grooming in my babies.
One of my new ones, Hobbes, is an over-groomer. He has little bald spots over his eyes.

Here is a picture the day I got him:
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Since I got him I have been trying to fit in a lot of out of cage time.
He is healthy (vet checked), has a good diet, good sized cage (32in W x 20in D x 52in H), wheel..buddy.

I have been trying to get more toys for him... I am not sure what else to do..


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu has bald spots on her head   Lulu has bald spots on her head EmptyTue Sep 11, 2012 7:12 am

Kelsey, that's how Lulu looked, she's healthy otherwise too. I do know that she was my pouch protective, cage protective, crabby, lunging, biting glider when we got them. She gets a little crabby now & then now, and will occasionally give a little nibble if you annoy or scare her too much, but so much more sweet. We've mad major breakthroughs with her in the 6 months we had her, but it took quite some time.

So I noticed a couple of small holes in her fur over her eyes. I had just noticed prior to my OP that they had gotten larger. After speaking with her vet & not being any signs of illness, everything normal. I decided to back off a little bit on pouch time for a while.

After a few days of just talking to them through the cage again, sticking my hand in the cage to take care of them & their things, offering treats, and inviting them to come out of cage, they starting to get back to wanting out with us, sometimes just one of them, sometimes both. These out of cage times were short, they were a bit nervous, but there was improvement.

Yesterday, I did some pouch time with them, they settled fairly well, I heard some clicking noises, and sometimes what sounded a little like a chirp. They did move around a little and at one time Lulu peeked just out of the pouch (I think it was her). I just spoke softly and gently rubbed over the outside shirt over their pouch. I had them maybe for around 2 hours before putting them back. After serving their supper, they came out to eat some early, shortly after 5, like they used to do. When I came in to talk to them, Lulu had just returned to her pouch, but peeked out at me. I kept rubbing outside the pouch, which made her pop out a bit (like, what do you want mommy?). Then when she went back down inside, I took her, in pouch, out of the cage. I just held it for a very short time, talking gently and when she popped her head out, I reached down and just rubbed her head, neck, shoulder area, and even a little on her cheek, then let her out of pouch in her cage. She ran right to where her cage should be, I know to attack me while I tried to replace it, so I withheld it until she got distracted with her food and then put it back.

I saw them late last night out playing, but didn't get them out. My hubby got them out for morning play & came and got me out of bed (he's been calling me when he gets them to come out in the morning, so I can have some time with them). We had a wonderful "out of cage" visit. They didn't want to play with their toys, but just run around on us and go back and forth between us like they used to.

My girls really don't know how to play, I keep thinking they're learning, but they really don't know what to do other than eat, run in wheel, or run around & climb. The jungle gym had their attention for only a short time after they were introduced a few times, then acted nervous about it. Today Lulu kept running down low on my arm and would look at it for a while. I really want to get a quick pop up tent that I can put up & take down super fast to set up for play, but it's got to be a certain size. I'm still looking.

I'm sorry for going on & on, I don't know what to suggest for you to try, but thought if I tell you what I've been doing and what effect it's having, it may help give you some ideas to try with your little guy.


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu has bald spots on her head   Lulu has bald spots on her head EmptyWed Sep 12, 2012 12:00 am

All of that is great to hear. I love to read different stories about it. Thank you!

Ever since I got these two boys I have never heard one of them crab, they are as sweet as can be. They are great in bathroom time, they both run all over me like they have known me for a long time. They both don't seem to like when I wear nail polish, they both go nip at my nails when they are polished (haha). I have never actually seen him over groom... but I have been working on out of cage play time.

I have never done morning time, I am not a morning person. I play with all the babies (different colonies/pairs & different times) in the night!

I have also been trying out different treats with them, and they just LOVE treats in general. I try to give them a treat every "morning" they wake up. I am still trying to learn their personalities. Smile


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu has bald spots on her head   Lulu has bald spots on her head EmptyWed Sep 12, 2012 8:09 am

Kelsey, LOL!!!! I'm not a morning person either. Apparently I can only wake up ready for 3 things, it used to be just 2, Christmas and vacation, now apparently play time with the girls, at least most mornings, but not all.

I love my girls, but I do envy a little bit the ones who have sweet, friendly gliders, especially when I see photos of them holding them and the gliders are hugging their thumbs.

My Draco (little Rankins dragon), I could hold in one hand, and he would wrap his front legs around my thumb. Oh, how I miss him.

Nothing sweeter than animal hugs!

Well at least sometimes my dog Willow will give hugs, big ones, lol.


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu has bald spots on her head   Lulu has bald spots on her head EmptyFri Sep 14, 2012 12:40 pm

Yes! My girls love to sleep in my hand. Especially my little Pabu, she is just the sweetest little baby in the world! I love you My boys are just all sweet, they like to walk all over me but they don't like to be held. Smile

My dog gives hugs too... but he is HUGE! lol!


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu has bald spots on her head   Lulu has bald spots on her head EmptyWed Oct 03, 2012 8:25 pm

Just wanted to update that Hobbes bald spots have almost completely gone away! Wohoo!

Here is a picture I took today (he is the main one in the picture):
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PostSubject: Re: Lulu has bald spots on her head   Lulu has bald spots on her head EmptyThu Oct 04, 2012 8:15 pm

Great news! So about how long did that take? I'm hoping with the girls having their new bigger cage and loads more stuff, & getting more used to us she will stop the over-grooming.


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu has bald spots on her head   Lulu has bald spots on her head EmptyFri Oct 05, 2012 9:51 pm

I got a pretty good look at Lulu's head today. I was able to do a nail trim on her and while I was petting her and giving her treat I got a good look but I didn't take any photos because of it being my first attempt at actually trimming her nails. Anyway, it looks like it may be growing in some too. I could see some short hairs filling in there

I think it's a combo of having a larger cage, and I have activities spread out from top to bottom. Also I think she is getting more used to us, so maybe a little less anxious. I only hope the nail trim didn't upset her too much, she seemed find during and afterwards. I guess I'll see how she continues to do.


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu has bald spots on her head   Lulu has bald spots on her head EmptySat Oct 06, 2012 1:01 am

Yes let me know how she is.
I think that my boy was anxious from the whole 8 hour trip possibly, I am not sure but the hair has grow in a lot since I got him. It has grown little by little but it has grown!
I have been doing a lot of outside play time and he loves it! Such a little character he is. He does have a bit of an anxious attitude compared to all my others (except Cheezers but he was a SM so he is different from all my little ones... he is a high stress glider.) But Hobbes is doing so amazing. I am happy we have made so much progress in such little time.


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu has bald spots on her head   Lulu has bald spots on her head EmptySat Oct 06, 2012 8:35 am

And I think "out of cage" play helps a lot as well. We've been getting the girls out most weekday mornings and occasionally on Saturday am. Mornings just work better for us.

Originally I tried most evenings getting them out for playtime, usually that would be just me, and then in the morning DH would get them out first, then wake me up so we would play with them together for a little while then he would get ready for work, it would be just me.

They started sleeping in later, and then we moved them into our bedroom, so I don't want to disturb DH late at night playing with them. They seem to be ready to come out in the morning and we all have a fun time.

I think this has had a impact on Lulu for the better as well.


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu has bald spots on her head   Lulu has bald spots on her head EmptyTue Oct 09, 2012 1:21 am

Yes I think it helps a lot! Smile That is good to hear that it is having a good impact on Lulu.

I love playtime, it is a great time to be with the little ones. I have one cage in the room next to me and one cage in my room. The both have different sleeping patterns. I like to have playtime mainly in the night, when I am done with all my school work... there has been so much recently since I just started this health program. But we still have our fun time...best time of the day. Wink


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu has bald spots on her head   Lulu has bald spots on her head EmptyTue Nov 06, 2012 3:40 pm

Lulu has bald spots on her head 2309384424 Lulu's bald spots are back. Then I had a nightmare, both girls had holes in their heads above their eyes. It was frightening and disturbing.

I really though Lulu was getting better, but her bald spots are very obvious once again.


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PostSubject: Re: Lulu has bald spots on her head   Lulu has bald spots on her head EmptyWed Nov 07, 2012 7:52 pm

I am sorry to hear that, in my experience it seems like once they develop the habit it takes a lot of effort or quick action to make it stop. Unfortunately for Luna, I did not know about gliders enough and didn't notice that something was wrong. She has slowed down on her overgrooming now but I must stay on top of everything. Making sure she gets regular out of cage time, give her treats just for her :], break up any girl "fits" due to their heats, change up the cage weekly, etc. These things help Luna keep some hair up there and although I am not winning the battle all the way the effort is completely worth it because the less she does that the better life I know I am giving her. I hope you can devise a plan that keeps Lulu occupied, breaks her habits, or in the least keeps it at bay.


VE

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